The Long Overdue Update on My Dream Honda S2000 Build. It's Not Good. (2024)

Bad luck old chap, hopefully gets done in time to enjoy the sun ☀️

It’s such a freaking mess when a dream is being shattered by such mishaps. But you are on the right way, thought-wise. Keep thinking positive and go on building your dream S2k. I‘ve got my 2nd S now and appreciate RUclipsrs like you, caring and sharing their passion with „us“. Please go on. 👍

On the verge of a new year, after a horrible gap, it would be great to hear where you are on the s2000 implosion and rebuild. Not as sexy as all your Ferrari stories for some perhaps, but at the heart of why I for one follow your pieces. Very much look forward to an update as we flop forward into 2024. Happy New Year.

I know how this must feel James, its utterly heart-breaking, I had my Morris Traveller with a supposed 'restorer' who was supposed to do some welding and renew the woodwork which was quite rotten, as I can't weld and since the woodwork is structural on those cars I wanted it done properly. I could not get in contact with the man for 2 years, not even by going down to the shop until I got a letter saying he was bankrupt and that I should collect the car. What I collected was not a car, but a shell, stripped for parts and left in a corner. I was both furious and heartbroken at the same time, so I know how it feels to hit a major set back, but my car is now back on the road, as I am sure yours will be! These things are rarely un-recoverable!

AP1 engines F20C are known to have week valve retainers. The F22C AP2 engine has resolved that.

Literally saw you at japfest, showed me the Honda and took the time to show me the ITBs in the boot of the celica! Gutted to hear this!! More than you, I own an s2k myself and seeing someone build the car the way you did gave me a lot of inspiration. I hope you can find the right solution to it.

Check the block serial number obviously. There's no way a top end build and tuning should take that long.

Ouch, Sorry to hear of your S2000 troubles. This is why I leave my cars stock, it's hard enough to find good techs to work on stock engines, let alone modified ones. I wish you luck on the build going forward.

Having owned a highly modified and yellow S2000 for years I feel your pain! It looks like with high-lift cams, the valve retainers rub on the rocker arms, some modification to the rocker arms maybe required to prevent contact with the retainers. I suspect that was the problem here

Awww, love your S2 too.... get well soon!

I cringed at the news and my heart goes out to you. This happened on my AE86 and I am not ashamed to say I cried. Best of luck and hopefully the artwork will be available for purchase soon.

Sorry to hear about your troubles. It is worth noting that for the toda camshafts to be installed, the rocker arms must be grinded (the exhaust side). Therefore, you might want to consider if that part of the job was done correctly and to ensure that it will not happen again. (Assuming you have the toda camshafts as I remember from an older video)

Good luck on the rebuild :) keep us posted on you plan to do with the differential and axles

I am so sorry that happened to you! As an S2000 owner, I have been waiting for your S2000 build videos. I can’t wait to hear about the ITBs even though that’s something I may never do it myself to my car, but still :D

It sounds like a highly modified pro-built engine is the way to go. Thanks for the video and good luck with the improvements.

I've been a "Honda Guy" for twenty years and I have not seen this kind of damage without the addition of a turbo. Really has to be a series of failures that Spoon materials and tolerances will never allow.

Sorry to hear the bad news James, hope you get it all sorted soon.

Gutted - but keep going! Thrilled you’re sticking with the project although the cost makes me wince for you!

I loved my s2000 had one when I was 20 but would never go back to one. I never knew any one have problems like that with the car back then. Your car must have been ragged like hell back in the day.

Tossed ya a like to help with the costs. Enjoying the channel!

Thanks so much for the update. I am just about to buy my first S and having researched everything to the Nth degree such news does not surprise me. However, i will not be put off and if all goes well i will be hitting 9k rpm soon.....with a huge smile on my face

That’s seriously unlucky! Loved my S2k and it really never put a foot wrong! Only let it go due to the arrival of the first sprog. I do remember being in Cambridge Honda when another S2k was flat bedded in. Apparently a stone had holed the rad and instantly drained the coolant. No coolant to register a high temp and the engine had seized. A short engine with goodwill from Honda was in the region of £12k and this was 13 years ago 😱

Gutted for you, . I would be in tears (and still might be) - I imported my S2000 new from Cyprus 17 yrs ago (an early facelift car in Sept 2004). It has now been with a restorer since December as it has serious rust problems - I know i should have let it go when it failed its MOT - but i couldn't - it stirs the emotions like no other car i've owned. Good Luck to you with yours - i will continue to follow, fingers crossed for a good outcome. 🤞🏼

That's why you just put an air-intake (or do the airbox mod) to hear the engine better and keep the rest stock. It was a masterpiece from Honda. No need to mess with it.

Sadly I’ve learnt that modifying an engine for increased performance means that you can enter a world of frustration and unexpected cost. As many have said, it’ll all be good one day, but having waited for 2 years for somebody to rebuild my Subaru motor it can be a stressful time.

Gutted, good to have an update and hope you get it sorted

Every cloud of oil smoke has a silver lining! Really excited for when it's back on the road. Loved driving that car!

Looking forward to what comes next. Things can only go up from here.

Damn. I d be so pissed. You really took it great. Good positive way of thinking as usual Jay. Unfortunately when u buy second hand parts of the motor there is the risk that they have been abused. Actually the S2000 is probably the most reliable track car ever. Problem is they are often over revved because that amazing gearbox easily take any gear at any rev. Even in best motoring I have seen at least 3 different S overreved by professionals. Yes there are people saying the ap1 retainer aren t as good as the ap2. Honda made improvements through the years but aside for the banjo bolt issue the motors are bullet proof unless overreved. Good luck with the build. We will wait to see the S2000 in all his glory with those Toda ITB. Amazing content

You’re taking this VERY well, James. Much better than me. Your optimism is encouraging.

Props for taking this as well as you are. Wouldn’t win me any favors, but I can’t say I would have done the same. Gonna be pricey, but I’m sure that once it’s done, this project will be worth it for you.

Sorry to hear about this James !! I'm shocked to hear this..usually the top end of B series and F series engines are nearly bulletproof..Wonder if the computer upgrade deleted Rev limiter and or they over revved the engine...?

This is a very similar story to my GT86, bought the car second hand in Aug 2020 61,000 miles all seemed well. Fast forward a few months engine spun bearing February 2021 just 2 weeks past my 6 month warranty after a bit of pointless back and forward with the finance company I found a Subaru engine specialist near me and after a bit of head scratching went for a rebuild so far no regrets as it's been absolutely perfect. I was lucky enough to be able to find the cash for the rebuild which seemed costly but was preferable to paying finance on a car I no longer had.

I have Honda mod issues as well Jay,..but too much invested, and I love my car too much. I'm not giving up !!
So I get it. Cant wait to hear those Toda goodies sing!!

Sorry to hear this James. You must be gutted. I guess the muted shirt today is in recognition of how you feel! 😁

This is the car that got me to subscribe to your channel. Best of luck! Watching with interest.

Oooof! Just what you needed!
Still, could be worse ... my TVR went in for "a two week engine rebuild that'll take three weeks" and that was seven years and £13k ago ... I no longer get a reply from the garage that have it!

This is why I will never modify a car. I’m part of a couple of Facebook groups, follow several car RUclipsrs etc and I ONLY hear stories that go along the lines of “I modified my car now it’s broken and so is my bank account please help”
I get why it’s appealing to people and it seems very enjoyable, like a grown up Lego set. spend a few quid on some plug in and play components and you’ve got your dream car, plus everyone needs a hobby so why not. but working as I do for an OEM I find it endlessly frustrating when people seem to think the cars themselves need upgrading because the manufacture was too lazy, too mean or too incompetent to make the car perfect in the first place. Car companies spend 1000s of hours and millions of pounds on every single component of the vehicle to make it work within very very tight constraints of cost, performance, reliability, comfort, refinement etc. with the best will in the world when someone modifies a car they may make it 10% better in one aspect but in doing so they will totally ruin it in all other aspects.

Sad news. Glad you're going to get it singing again though, well done!

Sorry for your loss.

Ouch, hope it's fixed soon 🙏🏾

I like yr positive attitude. Do the Celica, Toyota's don't break so easily you can safely get 400hp from yr GT four

I always try to see the bright side of things as well. I have to admit though I would be struggling if this happend to me, the S2000 is a bit of a dream car for me, I think I would be inconsolable. So we'll done you! 👍

Dam, the old FRM liners, the bane of any H22 owner and oil consumption.
In my H22 prelude I got steel darton sleeves in with high comp pistons, the epic side is many hursepurrs, the downside is even more epic oil consumption and jerky ride at low revs from the high comp pistons and big cams.

Ap1 s2000 are famous for dropping valves. The retainers can crack and warp overtime. Everyone replaces them with ap2 retainers. I would ditch the f20 and do a k24 with k20 oil pump. Great video!

Sad News for now but I am very excited to see the result when it is finally finished.

My gto went off 2 years ago for a clutch and turbos and is now a rolling shell waiting on a full rebuild / upgrade

Ouch! Did you change the cams or valve springs as part of the upgrade prior to the blow-up? It sounds like the rockers may not have a lot of design margin in them, and stiffening the valve springs or adding a cam with faster ramp angles may have pushed the rockers over the edge. You might want to have the rocker arms crack tested before you install them in the new engine, and maybe even check on if there are any treatments (i.e. cryo-treated, shot-peened, etc. some research may be in order) which might improve their longevity.

Yea its FRM cylinders. also the pistons should match this so they expand the same as block when heated. its diffucult coz you dont get much parts, i used S2k pistons in my H22 (also Fiber-reinforced-metal) as an upgrade. Also i think you dont need new headbolts, just check the original honda manual, theres ALL the information and very detailed. Honda manuals are worth gold. However similar engines dont need that to replaced.( B/H/D Series )
Oh and I would say stroking to 2.2 still is okay for 9000rpm. Should be 90mm stroke. I run 95 (2.3) in my H22 with 8200 (real not gauge) rpmwith ~26m/s pistonspeed for 2 years now daily/track. Oil is everything

Good luck.

What a bummer. Had the rebuilt original engine on my 124 Coupe blow up after 2k miles so I feel your pain.

I learnt a long time ago to never do things half co*cked after learning the hard way. You may think your saving a few dollars, but in the end reality bites you in the butt & you end up paying twice as much.
Especially when it comes to modifying engines, would’ve gone to a complete modified engine from a reputable engine builder that is very experienced with Honda engines such as Spoon & 4 Piston Racing in US or Stafford Engines in UK.
That way you have a complete new engine that is professionally built with no hidden surprises & the choice/options to keep the original engine, if down the track you decide to sell the car with or without the modified engine.

Good luck

Sad to hear. I fitted the Toda ITBs to my S2000 race car and had a 2.2 build which failed. Let me know if you need help with options. Anthony at Taikyu / Spoon UK will help you with a short block but there are UK race engine builders who can help on the bottom end.

I love ❤️ the Honda S2000 because they ROCK🔥 Jay I've heard Spoon S2000 engine's are built so good that they'll go a million miles, street driven of course 😉

Honda S2000 engine is so unique. I would never modify the engine as it was so precisely made..

sometimes i wonder if i should just keep mine in stock form since these things can and tend to happen quite often.. i was one of those asking for an update and i did imagine things didn't go as planned. this is my favorite car of all times and i hate how you are not getting to enjoy yours now, i know you love driving it. but stay positive sir, these precious metals are only (wants) in life. thanks for the update and i can't wait for the s2000 news. big fan.

I feel for you, James. I have a custom block window in my 135's engine at the moment, but all of my own doing. I hope you get the car back on the road, even better than planned. Thanks as always for sharing with us.

I probably would've sprung for a complete toda or k-tech engine but that's just me..spoon is cool too but close to an oem engine

Maybe look at a K Series swop with ITBs James? If you want to retain a displacement of more than 2 litres, a K24 block can be used. Either way, I'm sure you'll sort it out & enjoy your 9000rpm screamer.

Ouccccch 😰 glad you have stayed positive as that would have put a bad taste in my mouth and said bye bye! Watched your adverts all the way through so hopefully a smidge more revenue lol - look forward to the next part in the build

It’s going to be that much cooler in the end and the story is

Never had a failure on a VTEC engine. I let them warm up and cool down and keep the oil fresh. I once bought a non runner for parts. A valve had sheared and gone through the head, possible cam belt failure, and I decided, against better judgement, to have it sorted as the accord type r wasn't rotten. Big mistake, car came back several months later with compression issues causing mis-fires and the VTEC wasn't even working. The fact I had to pay is the outrageous part for substandard workmanship. I certainly wasn't going to give him a chance to rectify it either for the additional time and money! Jay you should have just bought a mint low mileage example for the money you'll have spent!

Perhaps you could replace it with Hubnut’s Foxanne 😂😂😂😂

Oh no. Enjoyed the video. I bought an early S2000 new. Sadly, like most if not all the early ones in the UK, I wrote it off coming off a roundabout.

sorry for your loss bud R.I.P S2000 engine born 2003 passed away 2022 😭🤧😭lol

At least in the US , most people don’t have access to a track to race .For that reason one needs to access what is best when driving back roads . When driving such roads , we all have to make judgments as to how
fast we will go on the straights as well as the corners . Let’s face it , if your car has so much power that you find yourself feathering the throttle all the time to stay under your defined safe limits that’s no fun. For an example look at Savage Geese driving the Nissan GTR on a back road . It’s nothing but total frustration .
So on a good back road romp it’s not how much power you have , but do you have the power to reach the safe limits where you drive . On handling improvements if your mods in your judgment enable you to safely drive faster on the roads you drive then there worth doing . I your mods don’t change how you judge the road then face it what you have is nothing more then extra car show bling .

What’s the current sitrep? Keen to see the finished S2k.

Spoon engine!!??? That things going to be an absolute beast James ! Say hello to 10k rpm capabilities !

Seriously, I couldn't keep chucking money like that at it - especially when you have other toys to play with. Fair play if you stick with it.

"In for a penny - in for a pound"
It's sad , when that happens. I'm currently refreshing a '97 Volvo V70 T5. My situation is not as harsh as yours. That said, there have been a few surprises

Ah the joy of project cars.. Sorry to hear of your misfortune, Jay. We'll all have to be a bit more patient before we can hear your ITB screamer. I, for one, am anxious to hear and see it! Possibly, you could get some footage of the build process? I'm sure a lot of us would love to see it. Cheers!

ah sh*t, you and me both. Had to swap my engine too. Had oil pressure issues .... Car is running again!

Gutted, that's a real shame. Best of luck with the rebuild.

Sorry to hear this, why didn't you use the original head?

What a nightmare! The S2000 is on my shopping list of cars that I want to own. The Spoon engine replacement sounds epic!

Damn dude the prices on replacement F20Cs are nuts. It was my dream to stick one in my E30 318iS but they are literally nearly the value of the car.

@Jay as an s2000 owner ap1 like yourself as one the worst fears on our cases owning the F20c.

Tough news fella, thanks for all the great content generally...

That news would have been gut wrenching mate. Is it possible to heat treat those rocker arms in a furnace in order to strengthen them?

I could weep for you. Would be interested to understand total car plus build cost once it's done

Hmm Spoon Sports… from what I know (of course I don’t have a S2000 so might be different), parts they actually make themselves are crap, but the ones they sell that were (mostly) made by the others are good - but with a hefty premium (albeit with somewhat better appearance)

Sad to hear, but it feels like a lesson in knowing when to stop to me. There's got to be loads of other things you could spend the extra 10 to 13 thousand quid on that would return significantly better value for money, surely?

Difficult to say with only one picture but I’d be asking some serious questions to the engine builders. I don’t think the rocker failure is the route cause of the engines problem, my main concern is what looks to be a foreign object in one of the cylinders, how has it got there ? If I were a betting man this looks like negligence. I’d be interested to hear @DirtyGarageGuy opinion on it !

A bit confusing you say at the beginning that you don’t want to take away from an already great car it’s good points then are looking at £25K changing everything you love about the car trying to make it better or something very different…I guess it’s good content for the channel.

Word of advice, don't get a Spoon long block, it's just a blueprinted OEM block with a few Spoon labelled parts. Plenty of places in the UK that can build better for less! Give MMR Race Engines a shout, he specialises in Honda engines, K, F, B Series

Gutted for you Jay! However on plus side love your too honesty and looking forward to the full rebuild video and then the final drive after works completed 👍🏻

Ouch!!
Sorry to hear about that. I hope it’s cheaper to fix than feared

Ouch engine. Like you say James lucky did not happen on the road.

Hate to hear it. Had mine since new in 06 (AP2). ‘Ok…ok…I’m leaving this car BONE STOCK. Nope! Not touching it! ….(erm…yeah. Right). That worked about as well as anything I’ve had that floats, flies, or rolls.
Performed all of the wrenching on my own. So as of about ‘08 its ‘stock’ form was OEM hardtop, custom offset OZ 3 piece wheels, KW V3 coilovers, chassis bracing, Chargespeed front end (about to replace with J’s racing), and due to Oscar Jackson Jr’s reputation I’d had a deposit on and received one of the first Kraftwerks centrifugal SC setups pushing 10lbs boost on a stock head gasket. Tune by Hondata. Car has about 58k miles on the clock and has been absolutely bullet proof. (Oh yeah…rear end gears lashed & cryo’d with stock gear ratios, heavy duty caps installed, Kaas 1.5 LSD). Stock absolutely will not handle 380ish to the rear. I knew this going in…but ask me how I *really* know ;-).
Had no idea it would turn out to be a really desired piece now 16 yrs later. But having kept it 16 yrs through life changes, divorce, etc etc…should speak for itself.
It’ll be worth it man. Hang in there. They’re a ton of fun, and just super predictable. Like driving a go kart. Hammer on one that’s boosted without leaving the VSA engaged…and you’ll be staring at your own arse end sooner than later. Likely as well as wrapping you around a telephone pole as the old school 930T’s were known for. Funny to watch the computer struggle to get a handle on things while I’m ‘pedal to the metal’. Good stuff.
Good luck mate, hang in there.
SLR

Sad. What a shame. Good luck going forward.

I've actually seen a couple online vendors here in the states that sell a s2000 block:
Icb motorsports in Az. & jhpusa in so. Cal.
As a self professed Honda nerd, I am sad.
But! No problems, just solutions. Don't get discouraged.👍🏼

Oh yeah broken valves, I've had a few cars with that. Always a headache 😢 Good luck mate.

You must be bloody minted Jay, I’m in the wrong job lol

Long waited!

Jay, if you are tempted to get it re-lined you need to watch Sreten's channel M539 to see what happened to a Alpina block that was re-lined with a different material than Alpina specified.

I've liked and feel your pain.

Awful luck james.. Keep up the good work!

This is why it important to remember car manufacturers who build performance vehicles engineer reliability, especially Honda. Condolences on the possibly matching number engine.

I wonder what happened??? Incorrect valve adjustment? The retainers in the 2.0L are common to crack/break, too.